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This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  johngalley 3 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #2084
    llubyllub
    llubyllub
    Participant
    • Posts 301

    The board budgeted to make a loss of about £350,000 (and must have put a note in the accounts that the loss could be covered otherwise the company would have been trading wrongfully)

    Gate income for season will be below that budgeted for by about £50,000 (after tax)

    Minimum loss for the season therefore about £400,000 (as reported at AGM) but more likely nearer £500,000?

    The loss has been reduced by about £110,000 to date by getting some sponsorship money ahead of next season but mainly by fund raising by supporters (this money used to pay two HMRC demands and some staff wages)

    So the loss for the season (ignoring any further contributions) is likely to be a minimum of £300,000?

    A few weeks ago the chairman stated that £300,000 was needed before the end of May to keep the club going. Is the £300,000 in addition to the £350,000 budgeted loss i.e. is the actual deficit nearer £650,000 (as a result of the failure of the debenture scheme, share issue, telecom deal etc.)? If not then is the board taking the supporters for a ride by letting them raise the money they must have undertaken to cover themselves when setting the budget? If the latter then it it underlines the ineptitude of the current board and chairman.

    HUST state about £220,000 is now needed before the Conference AGM (Keyte’s £300k less recently raised money of about £80k)

    I’m confused…..too many numbers floating about……what I really want to know is whether the club will still post a big loss if the remaining £220k is raised or will it more or less break even as this could be a factor in any future take over if the club survives.


    Who said Wales was a backward nation?

    #2086
    Pat Sharp
    Pat Sharp
    Participant
    • Posts 164

    Though not 100% sure, I think the answeer there is yes, there will be a loss of £300/400/500k even if funds are raised. Could be wrong.

    It’s a mess.

    As someone else put on here or BB, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that of the oncoming train.


    #2087
    Woody
    Woody
    Participant
    • Posts 105

    And the silence from Keyte is deafening. Seems to be leaving supporters to do all the work.


    Watching all the world go by.

    #2088
    llubyllub
    llubyllub
    Participant
    • Posts 301

    I think you are right Pat.

    “The future budgeted shortfall for the five months (Feb – May) originally of £150,000 will therefore be reduced to £110,000 or £22,000 per month.”

    David Keyte 19 Jan 2014

    So how come we still need £220,000 by the end of May? Gates have improved slightly since January and there has been an injection of £80k that was not budgeted. The total shortfall for those 5 months should therefore be no more than about £20k. For the 6 months prior to the above statement the chairman stated that the shortfall was running at £30k per month above that budgeted i.e. about £180k. Therefore total shortfall will now be about £200k above the budgeted shortfall of about £350k.

    I am extremely suspicious that wages are still 6 weeks in arrears which just happens to be the maximum an employee can claim from government funds if a company goes into liquidation.


    Who said Wales was a backward nation?

    #2089
    enforcerbull
    enforcerbull
    Participant
    • Posts 160

    This is to much for me…

    ..I have enough problems with female figures 🙄


    #2090
    llubyllub
    llubyllub
    Participant
    • Posts 301

    Too much for me too. In the six months prior to February the stated shortfall was actually £40k above the budgeted shortfall of £180k (not 30k a month that I stated above, the 30k was the budgeted shortfall per month). Therefore the total shortfall above the budgeted shortfall for the year to date should only be £60k (total loss about £420k). Still bad but not as bad. It seems to me that the board are trying to cover their budgeted shortfall, which they are unwilling or unable to cover themselves, with the funds raised by supporters. I understand that if a negative budget was set then the company would be guilty of wrongful trading and the directors could be made personally responsible for the company’s debts if the company was liquidated. What a woeful mess.


    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by llubyllub llubyllub.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by llubyllub llubyllub.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by llubyllub llubyllub.

    Who said Wales was a backward nation?

    #2094
    London Bull
    London Bull
    Participant
    • Posts 662

    If you put figures in front of me then I’m lost – but what we do need is exact clarification on what is needed and by when. I’m very cynical as to how long we can keep throwing money at the problem before we can no longer help.


    #2095
    llubyllub
    llubyllub
    Participant
    • Posts 301

    I’m a bit lost as well but am not as confused as when I started the thread. What I find difficult to understand is that the board when setting the budget anticipated a £30k shortfall per month. For the first 6 months of trading that shortfall was £40k above that anticipated due mainly to their over-estimate of the average number if people attending home matches. They then undertook a cost cutting exercise to offset the £40k. Therefore as we approach the end of the season the losses should be no more than those anticipated in the original budget which presumably the board were prepared to underwrite. In the meantime a considerable sum has been raised by supporters and other benefactors and handed to the club. The total loss should therefore be less than that budgeted for and the board, if they are not be be cited for wrongful trading, should be able to cover that loss. What are we not being told? Has there been mismanagement on an unbelievable scale and the losses are far greater than those hitherto admitted? Have directors taken out company loans that we know nothing about or called in their loans? (Unlikely but possible). If the board want supporters to continue to bale them out then a clear statement is indeed needed (without breaking commercial confidences) of what is owed to whom and the timescale for payment and what will be the bottom line at the end of the year if all creditors are paid.


    Who said Wales was a backward nation?

    #2096
    sittingbull
    sittingbull
    Participant
    • Posts 84

    I have a feeling that someone wants ALL their money back, as they are unable to sell/ profit from the club. If the person gets their money back, then the club can be given away to the lowest bidder. Then the person can thank the supporters for their generosity at enabling the person to leave the club, not out of pocket. This is only an opinion from a supporter, I would not dream of saying that this is or was the truth.


    The futures bright, the future is white.

    #2097
    London Bull
    London Bull
    Participant
    • Posts 662

    No businessman with any sense would hand over a huge sum of money to buy Hereford United in their present form; so surely no businessman with any sense would expect that kind of money in order to sell?

    I’d buy if I won the Euro Millions or something but that’s extremely unlikely. Nevertheless, I’d still hand the club over to the supporters to run as they saw fit. They could elect Directors and I’d be the money man. I’ve got it all worked out…


    #2098
    llubyllub
    llubyllub
    Participant
    • Posts 301

    I’m with Sittingbull on this one except that I don’t think someone wants ALL their money back he just wants supporters and others to make good the deficit he lumbered the club with when setting the budget at the start of the season rather than pay it himself. Someone has already said they had a figure in mind (£300k) that they were prepared to lose. Having already lost that he doesn’t want to lose any more.


    Who said Wales was a backward nation?

    #2111

    Giant Anteater
    Participant
    • Posts 329

    I just logged on to confuseananteater.com and was diverted straight to this site. Why? Because before the first match of the season I was handing out HUST literature and spoke to a supporter who for the purpose of this post will be called Gulliver. I expressed false platitudes of optimism about the coming season, and he said, “I don’t know where the goals will come from, we just have no one to score goals” So why why why did Keyte not allow Foyle to bring in a goalscorer who would have got us results, when more knowledgeable supporters than me were predicting this 90 minutes before I was.
    I just don’t know how he can expect to run the club without putting funds in unless he is ultra smart. If Luton directors put in £2m a year on their gates, and ours put in peanuts, draw your own conclusions.
    I am very angry; we have suffered mis-management of the highest order. Foyle had no chance.


    I'm a football anteater

    #2112
    London Bull
    London Bull
    Participant
    • Posts 662

    I think Foyle had a little chance because some competitive teams do have low budgets but his continued public criticism and blame culture was very, very disappointing. I also found Porter to be an odious character with his touchline antics. He just berated them for 90 minutes. That’s some move away from O’Kelly.

    Gulliver was indeed right about goals. I had hoped Rankine could be used for his presence in the box but nobody has been putting those chances away. Purdie has also been very quiet all season.


    #2128

    johngalley
    Participant
    • Posts 468

    Is it legal for the directors of a company to set a budget that will inevitably cause the company to go bust and people lose their jobs when the directors have no intention of investing the cash needed to fund the planned loss?

    Stinks if you ask me.


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